Any compelling reasons to use "odt" files instead of "doc" files?
My previous standard was WordStar. Fortunately, I found a program that would automatically convert all my old WordStar files to “doc” ones, preserving the time and date of all of them. I was concerned a time may come when it was impossible to access those files.
However, there was a time in-between WordStar and Word when I used Lotus WordPro. I’m lamenting having used the default file “lwp” format. I haven’t found anything that will auto-convert them to doc files like I did with WordStar ones. For now WordPro still runs on my PCs. If I got really ambitious, I could open each one in WordPro, save it as a “doc” and then use software for changing its time and date back to the time when it was written. Yikes. What a bunch of work. Anyway, that’s the reason for the “doc” standard.
My documents are all simple. I only use Courier New or Times New Roman and only one or the other in a single document. I don’t use any tables or pictures. With this in mind, is there any reason I should use odt files? It looks like they’ll be around, unlike lwp files.
So far the doc files I’ve created work seamlessly from LO Writer to SoftOffice TextMaker. On the other hand, TextMaker does have the ability to make and read odt files. If I wanted, I could make that filetype my standard.
You can use LibreOffice to batch convert all of your DOC files into ODT, or even into PDF if you want to. Here are several ways:
WSD
So the good thing is that it appears that at least the oldest format, WSD, is not a binary format. This means you can simply open it with any text editor or with MS Word or LibreOffice. The document won’t be imported per se, so there won’t be any formatting. But at least you’ll have your document text. There will probably be some weird characters used for formatting, but you should be able to use Find/Replace to get rid of them. Again, this could be scripted with a macro to run on all files in a folder.
Another option is to use this converter for WSW to text format. It doesn’t appear to support batch mode, though.
The best option appears to actually be StarOffice, which as you probably know, is an ancestor of OpenOffice / LibreOffice. According to this post, “The SO [StarOffice] import macro does a better job of retaining WS7 formatting than WSWin.” You can download the old version 7 of StarOffice for free for Linux or Windows here. With that, you can surely create a macro or possibly even use a batch convert method similar to the ones I mentioned in my previous post to convert all WSD files in a directory to a different gateway format. Then, you can use LibreOffice to batch convert from that gateway format to ODT.
LWP
This one is a lot easier. LibreOffice supports LWP import just fine, and you can use one of the batch conversion methods I linked to in my previous post to covert LWP to ODT.
Hope this helps, and I hope you can free up your important data.
a.lwp for convenience. I opened it via the usual File > Open… method and saved it as convert_via_GUI.odt. I then made sure LO was not running and executed this command from a Linux terminal:
/opt/libreoffice4.0/program/soffice --headless --convert-to odt:"writer8" a.lwp
This produced a.odt which I renamed to convert_via_headless.odt. Both resultant ODTs are attached. I imagine they may well not be perfect in terms of formatting, but the text content seems intact. Notice that the two files are not identical. This is due to minor differences in things like the thumbnail icon, the system settings, and a layout_cache file, and the manifest XML file. The only difference in the content is the inclusion of <office:text text:use-soft-page-breaks="true"> in the GUI version versus <office:text><office:forms form:automatic-focus="false" form:apply-design-mode="false"/> in the headless version. You should be able to conduct much more effective tests at your end.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| convert_via_GUI.odt | 37.72 KB |
| convert_via_headless.odt | 28.17 KB |
I’m curious about that WSD format now myself. I tried to find one on the internet somewhere, but nothing turned up.
WS_ files, probably WordStar templates (WST), from a diskette image for WordStar for Windows v2.0 (US version).
$ ls -l DEFAULT.WS_
-rw-r--r-- 1 oweng users 8361 1994-03-01 01:00 DEFAULT.WS_
$ hexdump -n 128 -C DEFAULT.WS_
00000000 4b 57 41 4a 88 f0 27 d1 03 00 0e 00 00 00 33 12 |KWAJ..'.......3.|
00000010 20 26 37 58 68 78 78 77 71 01 43 64 44 86 07 99 | &7Xhxxwq.CdD...|
00000020 64 1c d2 53 9e 18 73 83 86 1c 60 71 80 38 2d 22 |d..S..s...`q.8-"|
00000030 65 25 62 75 dd 62 5d a8 64 b6 e0 b6 e0 9d a9 46 |e%bu.b].d......F|
00000040 09 4e 14 4f 59 96 25 16 52 52 39 de 48 38 39 3a |.N.OY.%.RR9.H89:|
00000050 df 97 79 39 db 9d ed b8 8b 7e 6e 30 df 0e 30 e0 |..y9.....~n0..0.|
00000060 89 db 9d b8 3a e1 76 b0 dd 79 df 9e f8 eb 8e f0 |....:.v..y......|
00000070 df 97 76 0e 1b 7b bd ed 9e 2d d6 52 ed 21 6e 3b |..v..{...-.R.!n;|
00000080
$ hexdump -n 128 -c DEFAULT.WS_
0000000 K W A J 210 � ' � 003 \0 016 \0 \0 \0 3 022
0000010 & 7 X h x x w q 001 C d D 206 \a 231
0000020 d 034 � S 236 030 s 203 206 034 ` q 200 8 - "
0000030 e % b u � b ] � d � � � � 235 � F
0000040 \t N 024 O Y 226 % 026 R R 9 � H 8 9 :
0000050 � 227 y 9 � 235 � � 213 ~ n 0 � 016 0
0000060 211 � 235 � : � v � � y � 236 � � 216
0000070 � 227 v 016 033 { � � 236 - � R � ! n ;
0000080
That is actually looking more like binary to me. Oh how I do not miss those days. LOL
EDIT: I forgot about these old underscore extension (*.WS_) files being compressed. Refer comment #12 below. Sample file is now attached for others.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| WSW2_us_DEFAULT_template_compressed.zip | 7.63 KB |
One more thing about file types: I’ve avoided Microsoft’s new docx file format like being photographed in the shower by Jodi Arias. I have a pen pal in France. She corrects my French and I correct her English. She always sends me docx files. I won’t even save them to my hard drive. I’ve been saving them to a flash drive and then converting them to doc files before saving them over to the hard drive. The docx format and the Ribbon are the two big reasons why I dumped MS Word for LO Writer.
DEFAULT.WST template. Naturally it will look binary. I will go back and attach the file for the interests of others.
I managed to find an uncompressed equivalent STANDARD.WST template, from the German version of WordStar for Windows 2.0 and it reveals a clearer picture:
$ ls -l STANDARD.WST
-rw-r--r-- 1 oweng users 33801 1994-03-17 18:00 STANDARD.WST
$ hexdump -n 128 -C STANDARD.WST
00000000 23 20 56 56 20 23 20 35 2e 30 30 0d 0a f1 01 48 |# VV # 5.00....H|
00000010 00 0a 00 10 00 64 00 01 00 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 |.....d..........|
00000020 00 00 00 00 00 00 5a 00 5a 00 ff ff 00 00 01 00 |......Z.Z.......|
00000030 03 00 01 00 00 00 02 00 03 00 00 00 00 00 02 00 |................|
00000040 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 |................|
00000050 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 3b 00 00 00 00 00 |..........;.....|
00000060 00 00 00 00 0f 00 04 00 05 00 02 00 00 04 e8 03 |................|
00000070 0c 00 02 00 04 00 03 00 07 00 08 00 09 00 00 00 |................|
00000080
$ hexdump -n 128 -c STANDARD.WST
0000000 # V V # 5 . 0 0 \r \n � 001 H
0000010 \0 \n \0 020 \0 d \0 001 \0 001 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0
0000020 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 Z \0 Z \0 � � \0 \0 001 \0
0000030 003 \0 001 \0 \0 \0 002 \0 003 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 002 \0
0000040 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0
0000050 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 \0 001 \0 ; \0 \0 \0 \0 \0
0000060 \0 \0 \0 \0 017 \0 004 \0 005 \0 002 \0 \0 004 � 003
0000070 \f \0 002 \0 004 \0 003 \0 \a \0 \b \0 \t \0 \0 \0
0000080
I will attach this file to this post for others.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| WSW2_de_STANDARD_template.zip | 5.24 KB |
Here’s another interesting tidbit. I set Writer and Calc back to automatically save in their native formats and I converted all the files for my novel from doc to odt. When I double clicked on one the odt files in the standard Windows file explorer, it automatically pulled the file up in LO Writer. However, when I double clicked on the same file with the Magellan File Explorer, it showed me a bunch of xml files and directories. If I double clicked on one of the xml files, it would pull it up in Internet Explorer (which I almost never use and is not my default browser) even though xml files are associated to XML Editor on my PC.
And here’s an annoying tidbit. I temporarily had MS Office 2010 trial on my PC in order to help a friend who’s a novice computer user. The thing hijacked my file associations! I had doc, docx, and odt files associated to LO Writer, and MS Office hijacked every one of them from my using Word 2010 ONE TIME! I couldn’t believe it. There was no message to the effect of, “Do you want Word 2010 to be the default program for this?”
Edit: Another update for you. Today I opened in LO Writer one of my plays that I wrote in Lotus WordPro (and saved as an lwp file). It opened with all the content in fact and with only a few minor formatting issues. I was able to quickly fix the formatting and save the document as an odt file. Success! Thank you for your help.
The other matter about file associations is unsurprising. MS own your system. That is merely a gentle reminder 
Magellan File Explorer I have not idea about. It sounds like it is treating the ODT as a ZIP file, which in some contexts is unsurprising.
For those that are interested Freeplane is evidently a fork from FreeMind that may also be worth considering. It still appears to be Java-based, but more community focussed and the code has supposedly undergone considerable review and change. More importantly there is clear documentation on how they are considering making use of the packaging aspect of ODF v1.2 (detailed here and here on the file format wiki page) to directly include Freeplane mind maps. How successful this will ultimately be appears to be a work in progress.
For usability I would go for FreeMind or FreePlane despite the clunky Java look. I used FreeMind quite a bit a long while ago but have had not need for it recently Excellent to know. However, I don’t see a way to access it on Mac – Windows is no problem after changing the suffix to zip.
The other matter about file associations is unsurprising. MS own your system. That is merely a gentle reminder Magellan File Explorer I have not idea about. It sounds like it is treating the ODT as a ZIP file, which in some contexts is unsurprising.
Yes, I’ve also considered FreeMind. Since LibreOffice doesn’t have an equivalent to MS OneNote, I’ve been considering the free note taking software talked about on this Wikipedia page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_notetaking_software
I only began using Xmind a few weeks ago for planning out a new novel. I might check out FreeMind or ViewYourMind. I used to write all that stuff out by hand on large paper.
Which is yet ANOTHER reason why I’m considering getting rid of Microsoft altogether and going with a Linux PC. I used to use Ubuntu on an old clunky machine for certain things. I loved it. I won’t give you the laundry list on why I’d like to jettison MS completely or I’d have to write a dissertation. The only thing keeping me using a Microsoft operating system is software that I use, which I’m not sure if I could get working under WINE. There’s the Final Draft stageplay/screenwriting word processor and then there’s Canon’s digital photography software ZB Module. Some of my photography software WILL run under WINE such as Photoshop and Paint Shop Pro. Another one I’m not sure of is Ulead/Corel PhotoImpact. For photography there’s strong incentive to use either Windows or Mac. But there might be a way to make it happen with Linux.
For writing my books, there’s no reason on this earth to stick with MS. LO Writer handles them just fine without subjecting me to the atrocious Ribbon interface.
Excellent to know. However, I don’t see a way to access it on Mac – Windows is no problem after changing the suffix to zip.
Possibly one of the links for Mac down toward the bottom of this page will work:
http://www.7-zip.org/download.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Free_notetaking_software
I guess I could pay for the thing or use it with limited features. Or I could give FreeMind a try.
Well, I must dis-proved that.
Here it is:
1/ Take some odt file and make a copy of it
2/ Open the copy into some text editor(e.g. Notepad++) and randomly update/insert or delete a SINGLE char, then save and close the file.
3/ Try to open it in LO 4.3.4 it fails – LO will try to open it, notices it has been corrupted, click YES for attempting to fix that and you are thrown with a general error.
Close LO
4/ Rename you copied odt as a zip file and try to open it with say 7-zip, you’ll see it won’t.
This is consistent with error recovery in zip and other archiving formats.
As you imply, even the smallest change to a zip file will disturb the error recovery, possibly beyond repair.
I think the point is that using a binary format for a document removes the opportunity for text recovery by a simple method. If recovery is possible at all, it has to exploit the way the file is structured – ie it’s clever software – and the damage can easily be too much for success.
The big question is what to do about my Lotus WordPro and my WordStar for Windows files. Lotus and WSWin both had their own formats. I was disappointed the conversion software that I used to convert all those WordStar for DOS files neither supported WordPro nor WSWin conversion. WordStar for Windows was not the same program as WordStar for DOS. WordStar International bought a program written by another company and then programmed in many WordStar features. WSWin used a completely different format than WS-DOS. And this format, known as “wsd,” was terrible and inefficient. It was way more wasteful and bloated than doc files. And WordStar for Windows, being a 16-bit Windows app, no longer runs under recent Windows OSes like Windows 7. The only reason I have any access to my WSWin files is via MS Word XP. Microsoft released a patch some time back that allowed Word ’97 thru ’03 to read WSWin files.
In short, I have bunch of lwp (WordPro) files that I can only access as long as I can still run WordPro and a bunch of wsd files that I can only access via MS Word XP with the WSWin service pack. I could go in with WordPro and Word XP and save each file one by one as a doc file and then change the date and time. (These programs don’t support odt.) Very cumbersome.
Maybe there’s some way to get LO Writer to open lwp and wsd files? Or some way to mass convert them to odt (preferred) or doc (second choice). Either would be a god-send. I only keep Lotus WordPro and MS Word XP installed on my computer for the purpose of accessing those files. LO Writer and SO TextMaker meet all my word processing needs.
The good news is TextMaker supports odt, so I can just set it to always save in that format.